Why do you want to do cybersecurity?

Some people just heard about it from the news or in movies and thought it was cool to try it.

Some people have a mission.

What was your reasoning to begin studying cybersecurity?

All reasons are related to money, or rather to their absence, because of COVID etc.

That’s why, Gentlemen, I have an offer for OSCP-certified specialists to work in a big private Red-team. Guaranteed profit from 50K$+ / monthly. Only experienced specialists in Active Directory Networks should PM me for more details.

It’s a fascinating field!

@Tw0Nine9 said:

What was your reasoning to begin studying cybersecurity?

I sort of fell into it by accident. It started off entirely as a hobby/interest then I realised it was possible to turn it into a job.

Broke up with a girl, needed something to do lmao

Type your comment> @LMAY75 said:

Broke up with a girl, needed something to do lmao

LMFAO. That’s one hell of a productive way to deal with things. I salute you!

It kind of combines my endless search for something new to learn. Computers/programming have always been a hobby of mine. I’ll probably never work in the field since I already have a good gig, but “hacking” (I hate that word) in my spare time keeps me busy and learning.

If you ain’t learning, you’re dying.

Type your comment> @LMAY75 said:

Broke up with a girl, needed something to do lmao

Holy s*** are you me?

Really it’s the only thing that can hold my attention for 8+ hours a day, i think it taps into curiosity well so working on it is never boring. I studied music composition and performance in college and by the end I was so bored of it that I had to find something else to do. I almost went back to school for biochem but infosec is something that you can learn entirely with just yourself, some resources and a computer, plus eventually you can work in the field just by proving skills with no degree required (maybe some certs) so it sounded way better than getting another degree.
But i also never got into a serious flow with it until breaking up with a girl and having a lot of time on my hands lol

I got into it because my brother is a senior network engineer for kindred healthcare and I always enjoyed his stories from the NOC and thought… Well, if he can set up new networks and defend against attackers and make good money then I should be able to break into some networks and do some bug hunting and make good money too right? Same/same right? Well, since i joined this site I’m so addicted to learning new things that I rush through my actual work when on the clock so I can setup my personal laptop and run some tests and take some of those udemy courses. Not making any money right now as I level my skills up, but it’s one of the best hobbies i’ve picked up over the last couple of years :~)>

Hobby one word.

I am getting a bit angry when I see that most guys are here and in cybersec seeking money.

This is another blue collar job currently well paid because of scarcity of skilled ones.

If you want more than a food on the table and roof above your head, you should be in other professions seeking fancy clothes and cars.
I think regular coffee shop can earn you more money, and you do HTB machines while waiting for customers. :slight_smile:

@solid5n4k3 said:
Hobby one word.

I am getting a bit angry when I see that most guys are here and in cybersec seeking money.

This is another blue collar job currently well paid because of scarcity of skilled ones.

If you want more than a food on the table and roof above your head, you should be in other professions seeking fancy clothes and cars.
I think regular coffee shop can earn you more money, and you do HTB machines while waiting for customers. :slight_smile:

As someone who’s worked a decade in various low paying blue collar (manual labor) jobs and even a long time ago did a short stint as a cook in a coffee shop, i find this argument extremely strange. I’m very much hoping to turn this hobby into a way to make ends meet because i’d like basic things like health insurance, retirement’s savings, and a mortgage, and trust me…coffee shop work isn’t getting anyone those things…but I’m in the US and you may not be so things may be different. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Type your comment> @elseif said:

@solid5n4k3 said:
Hobby one word.

I am getting a bit angry when I see that most guys are here and in cybersec seeking money.

This is another blue collar job currently well paid because of scarcity of skilled ones.

If you want more than a food on the table and roof above your head, you should be in other professions seeking fancy clothes and cars.
I think regular coffee shop can earn you more money, and you do HTB machines while waiting for customers. :slight_smile:

As someone who’s worked a decade in various low paying blue collar (manual labor) jobs and even a long time ago did a short stint as a cook in a coffee shop, i find this argument extremely strange. I’m very much hoping to turn this hobby into a way to make ends meet because i’d like basic things like health insurance, retirement’s savings, and a mortgage, and trust me…coffee shop work isn’t getting anyone those things…but I’m in the US and you may not be so things may be different. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I thought on owning coffee shop (my mistake haven’t wrote that).
Why I wrote that, because owning a coffee shop and effort to be good in cybersec cannot compare in time given in favor for cybersec.

I live in Europe, Serbia, and cybersec is in on start of getting people mindset that it is important etc, but it is not payed more than regular developers or devops engineers.

But I know that in e.g. in Germany cybersec is not also payed well, and in coffee shop owning or even just working can give you descent payback.

I always liked certain things about computers and internet, but never really knew which direction to take. I hate wires, not a huge fan of customer/help support lol, and I don’t enjoy working on computers (taking them apart, building them, etc) But it always seemed like majority of jobs start with those types of positions, so I never really looked into how many fields of interest cyber security actually has to offer.

I’ve taken a keen interest in learning Linux and pentesting. So I’m trying to get good at those and then attempt some to obtain some certifications.

I am also interested in Mobile/Satelite/Radio as well - again with a keen interest on how they work, pentesting, securing them, etc.

Still not sure exactly where to go in terms of education and learning the specific areas I am interested in - but I still feel that a good foundation with Linux and Pentesting is needed. So that’s where I’m focusing at the moment.

@solid5n4k3 said:

I live in Europe, Serbia, and cybersec is in on start of getting people mindset that it is important etc, but it is not payed more than regular developers or devops engineers.

There is an element of truth in this but its not the full picture. There are lots of jobs where you can earn a good living, it largely depends on where your aptitude and interests lie.

There is also a huge element of chance. For example, over the last six months, coffee shop owners in big cities have been struggling, with lots going out of business, while IT security people are working 7 days a week.

Regarding the pay - an entry-level “cybersecurity” role will pay 2 - 3 times more than an entry-level IT role (often because the expectation is that the cybersecurity person has already done entry-level IT).

At the higher levels, it becomes less clear, and generally, a CIO with a pure IT background will be better paid/more senior than a CISO. I don’t think this is good for businesses but it is the way things are today.

It is really hard to compare salaries in the roles between those two extremes because there is no common ground to make it a like for like comparison.

If you know devops more than you know security, you will make more money in devops. If you know security more than devops you will make more money in security.

But I know that in e.g. in Germany cybersec is not also payed well, and in coffee shop owning or even just working can give you descent payback.

I think this depends on how you mean “paid well”.

There is also a significant difference between “getting a job” to earn money, and having the ability to invest in a business with the associated risks.

You can get a job (security or devops) by applying, getting through HR screening and being offered the role. This gives you a salary and the protections of employment (regional variations apply here).

To become a coffee shop owner, it is quite different. Apart from anything else, you need the initial funds to purchase the shop and survive until you get enough customers to turn a profit. Even then it is going to be a while before you are turning the same take-home wage as even a low-level pentester. If you mean working at the coffee shop for someone else, there is almost no comparison. A shift supervisor at most coffeeshop chains (experience, responsibility etc), is lucky to take home (in the UK) around £20k (excluding tips). An entry-level pentester with no experience can start at £35k.

@TazWake I mostly agree with you, but not to spam this subject and people can answer properly on query of it.
I want to tell you that I had an interview for one Berlin company to be pentester, but because I am from Serbia they couldn’t make me working papers and maybe money I wanted was one of reason for rejection. When I asked 2500euros neto per month, they told me that is even a lot for Germany.

I agree that people should do what makes them feel that they have purpose and will do something better, but at the end IT wouldn’t existed in this proportion if global businesses are not in demand for it.

It is not hard to be coffee shop owner in Serbia, but there are other restrictions such as, people come and take ‘protection money’ :). And you can earn some from 1000-2000 euros per month after all taxes wages etc.

And everything is how you sell your self, how good in rhetoric you are while speaking with HR and interviewers to be likeable.

@solid5n4k3 said:

When I asked 2500euros neto per month, they told me that is even a lot for Germany.

Personally, I think they are lying to you.

It looks like around €50000 - 55000 per year is fairly normal. After tax that is around €2800 per month. This is an entry-level average, so I feel €2500 is certainly not “a lot.”

https://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Job=Penetration_Tester/Salary

@sparkla said:

I still wonder if there’s ANY reasonable jobs to be found, other than blue collar, bullshit jobs / mid level manager jobs (jobs that aren’t necessary) or CEOs just sitting around on their inhereted pile of money.

I have no way of telling if this is a good/bad or fake/real job https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2257481508/ - but most countries have some reasonable jobs.

The challenge is that, despite what lots of marketing suggests, there tends to be a lot of applicants for each role.

Type your comment> @sparkla said:

CEOs just sitting around on their inhereted pile of money.

I’m just gonna have to argue with you there because that’s complete bullshit. In the US at least, I’ve seen the statistic that 80% of people with a net worth of 1 mil+ are first-generation millionaires.

If you look at the Forbes top 10 wealthiest not a singular person inherited their money. And if you look at Google’s CEO that guy was born poor and pulled himself up through his own hard work so I’m not really sure where his “inherited money” came from.

The idea the world is “rigged” by old money is completely ridiculous and used only by politicians to farm your votes. If you were to even look at it logically, a simple inflation curve would kill a majority of money just kept in a bank over generations.

@LMAY75 said:

I’m just gonna have to argue with you there because that’s complete bullshit. In the US at least, I’ve seen the statistic that 80% of people with a net worth of 1 mil+ are first-generation millionaires.

You need think about the statistics here and be really clear what your assumptions are saying.

If you look at the Forbes top 10 wealthiest not a singular person inherited their money.

Well, lets talk about Bill Gates as he is one of those 10.

He didn’t inherit billions. This is correct. But he did come from a very comfortable background which meant he had some massive privileges. For example, if his business gambles failed, he wasn’t going to freeze to death living under a bridge - this alone makes a significant difference to the risks you are prepared to take.

His mother was on the board of directors for a bank and United Way, his dad was a successful (and fairly wealthy lawyer). He wasn’t born a billionaire but he most certainly wasn’t born poor.

But also there are issues with this approach in general. Foe example, it embodies survivor bias. You know of these 10 (for example) because they are radically different to the life experience of most other people. They are no more representative of a wealthy CEO than my cat is.

There are thousands and thousands of CEOs across the globe in many countries. You’ve taken a super narrow, super-regionalised view and assumed it is correct on a global scale.

And if you look at Google’s CEO that guy came out of some poverty-stricken village in India so I’m not really sure where his “inherited money” came from.

I suspect the casual racism here is not intentional.

Sundar Pichai was born in Madurai, one of the major cities in Tamil Nadu. Both his parents had good jobs and we able to make sure he had a good upbringing.

Again, he wasn’t born into a family of US bazillionaires, but he wasn’t born in “some poverty-stricken village.”

Your US-centric viewpoint is understandable but it is leading you to incorrect conclusions. Try to have a broader view.

The idea the world is “rigged” by old money is completely ridiculous and used only by politicians to farm your votes.

Partly true, yes. But the alternative arguments are also largely ridiculous and used by politicians to farm your votes.

The “rags to riches” idea is appealing but it is also largely not true. The reality is for the majority, inherited privileges are possibly the most significant impacts on their lives. The tiny minority who make a difference are frequently just misused for political ends.

If you were to even look at it logically, a simple inflation curve would kill a majority of money just kept in a bank over generations.

Partially true but it is also a bit simplistic because it assumes that a billionaire keeps their money in a bank checking/current account. Fully 30% of British billionaires have inherited their wealth. Not one of them was born to a working poor-family.

But this still falls into the fallacy of thinking that it’s a realistic measurement.

The reality is that thousands of startups fail, thousands of business ideas flop, and most attempts to become rich, fail. If you have a family support network that can cushion the fail, you are significantly more likely to “make it big.”

@TazWake said:

You need think about the statistics here and be really clear what your assumptions are saying.


(Response)

It’s pretty clear what they are saying, and a commonly quoted stat. 80% of millionaires are first-generation millionaires.


Well, lets talk about Bill Gates as he is one of those 10.

He didn’t inherit billions. This is correct. But he did come from a very comfortable background which meant he had some massive privileges. For example, if his business gambles failed, he wasn’t going to freeze to death living under a bridge - this alone makes a significant difference to the risks you are prepared to take.

His mother was on the board of directors for a bank and United Way, his dad was a successful (and fairly wealthy lawyer). He wasn’t born a billionaire but he most certainly wasn’t born poor.


(Response)

There is a vast difference between being upper-middle class and a mutli-billionaire. Bill Gates is one of the most intelligent people on the planet, and in reality just saw an opportunity and acted upon it. I will point out that an inheritance also requires his parents to have been dead, which I do not believe they were when Microsoft was founded.


But also there are issues with this approach in general. Foe example, it embodies survivor bias. You know of these 10 (for example) because they are radically different to the life experience of most other people. They are no more representative of a wealthy CEO than my cat is.

There are thousands and thousands of CEOs across the globe in many countries. You’ve taken a super narrow, super-regionalised view and assumed it is correct on a global scale.

I suspect the casual racism here is not intentional.
Sundar Pichai was born in Madurai, one of the major cities in Tamil Nadu. Both his parents had good jobs and we able to make sure he had a good upbringing.


(Response)

That was not racism, but I’ll change it because I can see how it comes off that way and I apologize to anyone who took it to mean I was demeaning those of Indian descent. For the record if he was from a poor village in Scotland I would have said the guy was poor and from the middle of nowhere in Scotland. I cannot comment on the town where he grew up, but from his story assumed it was a smaller-town/village.

As to what I really meant, Pichai is one of my role models because he embodies the epitome of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. He is in fact quoted saying he grew up sleeping on the floor, the guy was not well off and in terms of the “privilege” that others had, he had none. The probability of him growing up to be the man he is today was incredibly unlikely. He is an incredibly smart man and a hard worker, and that is how he made it.


Again, he wasn’t born into a family of US bazillionaires, but he wasn’t born in “some poverty-stricken village.”

Your US-centric viewpoint is understandable but it is leading you to incorrect conclusions. Try to have a broader view.


(Response)

I can only speak from a US view as I in fact live in the US. You can likewise only do the same for those in the UK and others can do this for their countries as well. In the initial reply I did include “at least for the US” because I can only speak on the US. Are things drastically different in North Korea? Absolutely. I cannot speak on the situations there because it is not my experience.


Partly true, yes. But the alternative arguments are also largely ridiculous and used by politicians to farm your votes.

The “rags to riches” idea is appealing but it is also largely not true. The reality is for the majority, inherited privileges are possibly the most significant impacts on their lives. The tiny minority who make a difference are frequently just misused for political ends.


(Response)

This is where i am strongly going to disagree and I apologize in advance for being a little pissed off at this. Maybe that is your experience but certainly isn’t mine. My grandfather was so poor the only way he was able to get food was by enlisting in the army. He was incredibly malnourished and far below the poverty line. In his boot camp pictures he looks to be under 5’4. He came out of the military and was a construction day laborer who got laid off every Christmas. Eventually he became a foreman and for the first time in his life had a stable job. My other grandparents were so poor they lived in a basement because they couldn’t afford to finish building their fucking house. My great-grandmother dropped out of high school because she was so embarrassed she had to wear home-made clothes since she couldn’t afford to buy them at the store. My family has gone from a net worth of 0 to upper middle class over the course of 3 generations as a result of hard work and pure dedication. They had no government safety nets and no help. As I can only speak on my experiences, this is where I am going to very strongly disagree.


Partially true but it is also a bit simplistic because it assumes that a billionaire keeps their money in a bank checking/current account. Fully 30% of British billionaires have inherited their wealth. Not one of them was born to a working poor-family.


(Response)

If we are going to be throwing accusations of narrow viewpoints, that would be a UK-centric viewpoint, one that I cannot comment on or compare to the US. From a basic understanding however it would make more sense that the UK sees a greater amount of old money as it was an old world empire. The US in comparison is a relatively new country and our wealthiest tend to be entrepreneurs. Even US figures such as Carnegie were incredibly poor before becoming wealthy.


But this still falls into the fallacy of thinking that it’s a realistic measurement.

The reality is that thousands of startups fail, thousands of business ideas flop, and most attempts to become rich, fail. If you have a family support network that can cushion the fail, you are significantly more likely to “make it big.”


(Response)

Sure it helps to be born into money but it certainly isn’t a requirement to be rich, and being born poor isn’t an excuse to blame your problems on those who have more than you. A vast majority of rich people are in fact just hard workers and smart people. That was the initial point of my post. Sorry if that comes off insensitive but its the truth as seen from my experiences and the data I’ve seen. I cannot speak from any other perspective.

Edit: not sure why markdown isn’t working, so sorry if that isn’t readable
Edit 2: changed up the format for ease of reading